That old chestnut...?

... "If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nothing there to hear it; does it make a sound?"





Interesting diversions and fresh insights welcome!

That old chestnut...?
Ive always interpreted this to be a metaphor for conciousness. Put it another way - if all life in the universe was removed, would the universe still exist. The answer of course is no, because how can something exist if there is no conciousness to acknowledge that it exists.
Reply:I take it you haven't studied any of the physical sciences. If a tree fell on you in the forest and you screamed and no one was there to hear you, did you scream?
Reply:A chestnut tree.
Reply:Of course it makes a sound... that's like asking if i stand and scream but no one hears me, am i still screaming? Of course I am. Besides, if a tree falls in the forest there would be something there to hear it... other animals for one thing.


That's like saying nothing is real, true, or valid UNLESS its seen, heard or acknowledged.
Reply:take either point and





develop a traditional





argument . then prove the negative





given a false choice.........how is that for diversion?
Reply:Yes.
Reply:well.. it obviously will make a sound, just nothing around to acknowledge it!! bit like society.. if you steal something and dont get caught.. are you a criminal? We are unwilling to see or..'hear' the most obvious flaws in our world, but it doesnt mean they dont exist .. again .. back to the ignorance thing.





rant over lol
Reply:It just looks around and see if anyone noticed to stop embarrassment. If there is no one there, it just stands up, brushes his knees and carries on.
Reply:Well yes, but it doesn't make nearly so much sound when it's falling as it does when it actually hits the ground!
Reply:Of course it does.


By stating otherwise, you are suggesting a level of inteligence not normally attributed to tree's...that it is aware of it's surrounding's enough to determine whether or not a human life is present.





If it is aware enough to know that a human life is present, it is no big stretch to further assume that it would also be aware of other forms of life. As most visible forms of life have some form of hearing, why would a tree opt not too make any noise when another form of life is present. As you mentioned, this is in a forest...there are likely to be countless forms of life present without one of those necessarily being human.





To answer your question: Yes!
Reply:Of course not. Go on prove me wrong then I dare you
Reply:Guess I'm the boring technical one here, who ruins it for everyone :(





How do you define sound?





If you say sound is the vibration of particles (usually in the air) then yes, the tree falling will cause that phenomena.





If you say sound is the human (or similar intelligent being's) interpretation of the phenomena above, then no as there is nothing to allow "sound" to exist.





If you want to be even more technical and say the forrest itself does not exist if someone is not there to know it exists, then the question can't exist either as it is referring to said non-existent forrest. Meaning don't bother answering!





Look forward to hearing what you think is true :)