The old chestnut about NHS refusing treatment for smokers again?

In the Daily Mail, there are reports about the NHS refusing treatment to smokers and obese people, due to their "lifestyle choices" increasing the risk of a particular condition.


Why do the NHS never consider:


(i) Refusal of treatment to drug users that contract hepititis?


(ii) Refusal to treat those that have an illness due to their irresponsible sexual practices. (I am not specifically referring to homosexual people - hence the wording.)





The above two examples are, surely, a lifestyle choice.





In addition, why do the government insist on rewarding school-age girls for breaking the law? There can be no better proof that the age of consent has been breached than a baby. Surely, prosecutions should be threatened or, at least, any benefits withheld under these circumstances.





Before I get dozens of 'thumbs downs' for this - I am not seriously suggesting the three examples should be considered, I'm merely wondering why certain lifestyle choices are shunned.

The old chestnut about NHS refusing treatment for smokers again?
Alcohol, cigarettes how much do we pay on tax for this?!





Yeh your right it is a choice of lifestyle, but we do pay tax on booze %26amp; Fags, which goes back in the pot, alledgely.





Children getting pregnant, sorry i think there parents should be made to pick the bill up for this not the tax payer, they should be educating there kids and not rely on the schooling to do this!





Obesity is another and especially in children is this not a form child abuse, parents aren't parents that allow there kids to get so out of control, like that kid in the express yesterday 7 years old and 15 stone!
Reply:i agree with you


what about cancer treatments being with held also


and it being a loto nhs


if your in a rich part of UK you get the treatment if not tuff luck


this approach is another point


the fact the government are really planning to get rid of the nhs is another!!





most of us can not afford to pay even with a payment plan





oh did you also know you get sent a bill if you were in an r.t.a? my brother was knocked off his motor bike ambulance was called due to his injury's and they billed him for it


why?


it don't figure
Reply:I totally agree with you on this one!
Reply:they will be next
Reply:Sorry if I'm bumping but this idiot needs a grilling:





"because in the UK people like to feel holier than thou. they like to feel that no matter what they do, or dont then there is someone who is worse than them. The idea that the UK was a forgiving consensu is slipping, especailly as people become mor eobsessed with their rights, and forget their responsibilities"





Psychobabble. And fyi our rights are continually being destroyed by out government, (Who tried to abolish our democracy a month or so ago with the LRRB bill). Smokers pay tax on cigarettes, that "Responsibility" is unavoidable. Therefore the right to treatment follows.





Also, your environmental nonsense is worrying. The UK produces 1.96% of the worlds carbons emissions. The moral blackmail of "going green" is disgusting. Another excuse for new, exciting range of taxes to feed money into CCTV and identity cards.





New Labour: "Do as I say or the planet gets it"
Reply:I could not agree with you more and I gave you a thumbs up.
Reply:what annoys me about the nhs going on about not treating smokers with out smokers no NHS if they are going to discriminate smokers. i agree also don t treat druggies prostitutes drunk drivers speeders idiots who end up in hospital from general stupidity also everyone goes on about human rights it is a smokers human right to smoke and should not be shunned for a life style choice they are already banning smoking everywhere the goverment will be in trouble if whole nation decided to give up the country would be crippled for money
Reply:because in the UK people like to feel holier than thou. they like to feel that no matter what they do, or dont then there is someone who is worse than them. The idea that the UK was a forgiving consensu is slipping, especailly as people become mor eobsessed with their rights, and forget their responsibilities





it helps keep people in a cosy little world where they can continue to whatever they like without reference to others... beause there is someone worse than them.





It doens't matter if thats recylcing, buying "green" energy or whatever
Reply:Wait till they ban smoking and we all quit .and watch the tax go up on fuel. That's what worries me
Reply:I don't think they can start doing this, because where will it end? A doctor saying 'oh you can't have treatment because you've done something I don't agree with. Anyway, smokers pay alot in the tax on cigarettes, how much tax do the government get from smokers? I don't smoke and I think it's down to themselves why they get ill, but I have to agree they do pay alot of tax! Drug addicts should be treated the same, not teenage pregnancies though, mistakes happen. It would be a one off mistake not a whole lifetime of abusing your body. In the end people will say, criminals should not get treated etc, where will it stop?
Reply:if the government is happy to tax you for smoking/drinking then they should be willing to pay for any treatment you require . Not all people can help their weight it could be because of thyroids so there no reason to ban treatment .


If you've paid into the system all your working life then your entitled to be looked after, there's are plenty of people here who have not paid into the system and they are never refused treatment, so if they are prepared to give it to those who haven't contributed, then what the problem with those who smoke drink or overweight ?
Reply:I`m tired of hearing it too .The government rake in billions of pounds from smokers , Most of the price smokers pay for cigs is the tax .This is why the Government get so wound up about cigs and tobacco being smuggled into the country ,and also why they would never ban smoking completely They already got in a panic when the EU made the ruling about tobacco products sold on the internet ,and said the tax shortfall would have to be made up on income tax .I have smoked for about 20 years and have never had a smoking related illness maybe i should be entitled to a rebate on the thousands of pounds the government has got out of me .
Reply:good points
Reply:Yet another thumbs up for you, you hit the nail on the head.
Reply:That's the Daily Mail's agenda. It isn't true - try finding some verification elsewhere in the media if you don't believe me. Beats me why people read it.
Reply:If smokers are being refused treatment,then they will not mind those smokers claiming a percentage of their National Insurance Contributions back! Thumbs up!!!!
Reply:this pisses me off. we pay for those f***ing hospitals, we should get preferential treatment. if we all stopped smoking they'd have to start taxing tofu or something.


the thing is proving anything. how are they gonna prove that someone wouldn't have gotten cancer if they hadn't smoked. non smokers get cancer too, sorry to break it to y'all like this but it's true. you're gonna die sometime and probably in excruciating pain. have a nice day :)
Reply:You said it all when you wrote 'Daily Mail'. The newspaper for people that never leave their homes.





The NHS treats everybody because everybody pays the insurance. Until specific clauses are written in to that insurance then the NHS will continue to treat AS LONG AS THE RESOURCE IS AVAILABLE.





BTW: Britain is not a good place to get sick in.





Be aware that an individual doctor may well have to chose between an lifelong smoker and an individual that takes good care and has family etc. Which would you chose?





Drinking probably causes more illness and accidents than smoking and I see no program to make it socially unacceptable. I engage in 'risky' sports (skiing) but I also take out extra insurance in case of accident.





BTW: Hepititis is very easy to get. Someone sneezes in the wrong direction and you are it. Ask an ambulanceman.





Rewarding girls for getting pregnant? We do. We also fail miserably in showing them, from an early age, that a rewarding life can be gained by taking advantage of the free education they are given.





I guess lifestyles are shunned when others realise is costing them money. Im sure that any smoker dying of cancer would happily spend the rest of his/her life working to pay for treatment as an alternative to what will happen.
Reply:I So Agree With You,
Reply:I could add.....schoolgirls and aborted suicide attempts, ALL rugby / football players....anyone who is at fault when driving and having an accident. This is a perennial favourite for journalists. They have little else to write about.





However, if it sparks and enlivens debate and intelligent discourse it cant be a bad thing.





xxB
Reply:I agree with most of what you say. However let's not forget, when a schoolgirl becomes pregnant, she didn't do it alone, so then what? Do you refuse treatment of any sort to all men who may or may not have fathered these children?
Reply:Negative behavior is grounded in the lack of knowledge about the great value of Life. Is there a way to help our youngsters? Yes, you are right. Are you thinking about a way to improve our world? Maybe you would agree in something like if you increase your capacity of awareness, then, you by conviction, more than by laws or threatens, you, your family, your friends, your community, your nation, will be: "Genuinely Sincere, Grateful, and Respectful with The One Who Gave us Life, with Mother Nature and with ourselves" This is accepted by Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, etc. It is the foundation of The Ideology in order to make UK United again, dear. happy New Year 2007
Reply:i dont agree with you
Reply:Well, you get a big thumbs up from me. You have identified just one part of this left wing governments control freak, intolerant attitude. The NHS doesn't refuse the extra tax money that smokers pay. It doesn't point out that IF they die younger, there is far less government and private pension money to pay out, plus other government benefits. We all have to die of something, and you can only die once. Moreover, the argument about passive smoking is also greatly exaggerated. In my experience, few smokers develop incapacitating conditions, and where they do, it is much later in life. Drug users, have been categorised as a victim group, despite the fact that many of them commit crimes to feed their habit. How long before this develops into - 'he has the wrong sort of genes'. Minority groups and victim groups have been given special rights as a means of controlling the majority. To a large extent, the NHS, like most of the public sector, is inefficient, so it is only too happy to carry out the government's agenda by punishing smokers and overweight people. Others will follow. Who decides who is overweight anyway? Heavily muscled people with little fat could be said to be morbidly obese, using the Body-weight mass index as a measure. Who on earth chose the term 'morbidly'. You might be marked down by the lefties for reading the 'Daily Mail', although, it is one of the few newspapers to point out this sort of nonsense. We don't pay our tax money to have them tell us how to lead our lives. The vast proportion of the NHS budget is spent on women. Should they be rationed as well? I'm off to climb a mountain now.





Ignore 'Philip _io'. The National Insurance money has been going into the General Taxation pot for many years. It is not earmarked for the NHS. He has also swallowed the left wing anti Daily Mail nonsense.
Reply:Don't know.
Reply:That's because the PC police have determined that smokers should be forced to quit "For their own good" Now that they have managed to pretty close to eliminate tobacco use they are looking for a new target. Obesity is the next one. Before long these unhealthy and unsightly overweight people will be targeted with higher health insurance costs, unpleasant comments in public, legal housing and job discrimination, banning of foods and a host of other atrocities "For their own good". Its all a part of the liberal agenda to force us all into a single mold and control how you live and behave.





Don't believe it? Think again. Many of us remember seat belt and helmet laws being enacted "For our own good". The propaganda machine is hard at work all around you and most people either just sit there and let it happen or actively participate not realizing that sooner or later they too will be the target of diminishing freedoms "For their own good"





Again, under the liberal agenda, it is PC to feel sorry for the drug addicts and careless who have contracted deadly diseases. Our hard earned money should go to help those people, whether we agree or not. It isn't about rational or caring for others, its all about control of you and me.
Reply:I Totally agree with you, and i think anyone has the right to treatment life style choice or not?


it is after all your life? to do with as you please?
Reply:TOO MANY DO GOODERS IN THIS COUNTRY
Reply:It's a good debate, thank you, well I don't think the old add-age 'smokers keep the NHS going with their tax' is realistic.


I think it is more likely that a smoker likes to believe this to make themselves feel better.


Now I think we are seeing a gradual 'watering down of the NHS all together. Our hospital charges £4 to park there for 2.5 hours and must make £5,000 a day from their car-park in profit. So where does this money go to?


Now this might seem like a different argument all together! My point being that they are taking more money from us, yet the services are getting less.


As you mention, various 'get-out clauses' have been suggested, such as obesity and etc.


It's a very grey area, because obese children fr exmple are just that due to their parents (surely)?


And a HIV carrier could have been born with it, got it through a transfusion or got the illness through a rape incident?


Similarly someone with a smoking related illness could have contracted it while working in a smokey bar, never having smoked themselves.


What scares me is that if the NHS starts to become selective about who it treats, how will it sumarise who gets and who doesn't. It's a slippery slope into a health service which will charge for everything! Will people over a certain age be refused drugs or treatment for example?





I'm sure it all comes down to money eventually, but as I have said, to which department does the £2 million profit from the car park go?





I think obese people could help themselves a bit more though, and take some control of their lives. The NHS offers good advice and support for patients who want to help themselves.





HIV is the one thing which will affect us more in future, I think, cases have rocketed from 250 to 500+ (in this city) in the past 3 years here (according to local press) and will be 1,500 cases by 2008. There are many others who have not yet been diagnosed in the UK who are unwittingly passing it on.
Reply:Questions like this make me laugh. since 1994 I have spent quite a long time in hospitals up and down the country, The stench of smoke coming from nurses and doctors has to be smelt to be believed. I can't see them standing back and saying treat this poor soul, he never smoked, not like me and my fifty per day...........
Reply:You are quite correct, it's disgusting. "Smokers cost the NHS blah blah blah". Smokers pay more taxes than non-smokers and should be entitled to the same level of treatment.